RANT: Who is drinking "real" Burgundy these days?

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RANT: Who is drinking "real" Burgundy these days?

(44 posts) (21 voices)

Started 3 years ago by Dominic Allnutt
Latest reply from Mark Goldberg

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Dominic Allnutt
Member

Lots of TNs can be found on the web in forums for wines from the "usual suspects" of Burgundy domaines. Arguably, even rare and so-called trophy producers such as Roumier, DRC, Leroy, Rousseau, et al are easier to read about than many more affordable, accessible, and readily "available" estates.

Let's take my beloved commune of Volnay as an example. Understandingly *deMontille, *Lafarge and D'Angerville get most of the attention from Burg drinkers but what about buying a bottle of Volnay from *Dublere, Leroux, Rossignol, or JM Bouley? TNs for such examples are few and far between...

Given the pricing on "premium" Burgs these days this trend is even more baffling to me!?

My point/question is the following: As an importer and wine enthusiast, I have been really excited about Champagne and Burgundy of late because these two regions, where some of the world's most expensive wines hail from, are bursting with dynamic young winemakers making stellar and affordable juice that really represent the "soul" (trying to avoid using the dreaded word T_r_o_r here) of their respective birthplace...

But who is drinking these wines??? Are they all being drunk locally in France or mostly in European countries, as they are not easily found on the shelves of most North American wine shops or restaurant wine lists. To my great disappointment, even great restaurants in the US, renowned and heralded for their excellent somms and wine programs, mostly feature "who's who" style lists which focus heavily on verticals from Lafon, Ramonet, Coche, etc.

Chablis is another case in point. There must be a zillion TNs on Fevre, Dauvissat and Raveneau...Who is drinking *Picq, *Dampt, Tribut, Servin, or Pinson???

Gevrey? Is there anything other than Fourrier out there to discover? No knock on the Domaine, as I like JM's wines quite a bit but what is up with this tunnel vision? Does anybody other than Ponsot make Clos de la Roche? Looking at online TNs, one wouldn't think so.

What gives enlightened Burgheads?

Regards,

Dom

*I represent with much pride the starred estates in QC

GO HABS!

Posted 3 years ago #
bill nanson
admin

Great rant Dom!
I just looked at my waiting list; Clark, L&A Lignier, Latour, des Croix, Potel, Tortochot, Fougeray de Beauclair, Trapet, Bocquenet, Liger-Belair. Okay, maybe sorry about that last one ;-)

FYI The best 08 Volnay I've tasted is Potel's Bellene Clos des Chênes - I aleady ordered, it's marvellous. As for Nicolas Rossignol his wines are rather expensive - in my market at least - still a shame my visit was cancelled. Do try and pick up some of Dubreuil-Fontaine's village Volnay - it's more than half 1er cru and at the price it would still be a steal if it wasn't!

In general Dom, I fully support your rant, I do find myself passing over many a thread because of the 'look at me' title.

Okay the Montrachet is what it is, but I think my top 10 wines of the year so far (there aren't 10 yet!), from hundreds, shows a healthy dose of limelight avoidance ;-)

* 2008 Bellene Montrachet
* 2008 Bellene Volnay Clos Chênes
* 2008 Drouhin Beaune Grèves
* 1999 Jean Raphet Clos de Bèze
* 2007 Vougeraie Clos Blanc

Posted 3 years ago #
bmcq
Member

I keep hoping that the ridiculous prices will drive greater availability for less well known rburgs in les Etats-Unis. But so far, the wine consumer and the consumer in general is intoxicatedly obsessed with the "luxury" angle on everything. One cannot even buy a station wagon (estate car) with a manual transmission anymore.

Anyway, I buy Bouley, Bertheau, F. Magnien, M. Magnien, Digioia-Royer, Dom du Croix, and good old D. Laurent where I find decent drinking value.

p.s. I'd removed Fourrier from the 'less known' list a couple of years ago.

Posted 3 years ago #
Will Cashman
Member

I have a Vincent Dancer Chassange 2008 lined up this evening, does that qualify as 'real' burgundy?

Posted 3 years ago #
Tom Blach
Member

A very good point, Dominic. The short answer is me. I will try to remember the bottles drunk over the last two weeks ,in approximately reverse order
Marsannay Blanc 06, Bruno Clair
Beaune Reversees 99, P. Pernot,
Santenay La Comme 90, A Belland,
Santenay la Comme 88, Faiveley,
Corton-Charlemagne 86, Juillot,
Morey Clos Solon 04, Fourrier,
Aloxe Corton 78, Latour,
Beaune Vignes Franche 78, Latour,
Morey St Denis 93, G Lignier
Savigny La Dominode 98 and 89, Clair
Pernand Pierre etc 00, Jadot
Chambolle les Fremieres 89, Remy

I haven't been entertaining much or celebrating, so just standard bottles most of which cost me less than £10, all engaging and fascinating wines with something distinct to say.
There is no question that Grand Crus from the great growers are far more delicious as well as far more complex- but I make an analogy with food here. Once you have had enough lobster, caviar and foie gras they are no more compelling than cod, kippers or tripe. It's all about quality, not status.

Posted 3 years ago #
bill nanson
admin

How was the Belland 'Comme' Tom, I still have a few 99 halves. I was thinking about opening an 02 Clos des Ducs half, but for now I'll keep it real... ;-)

Posted 3 years ago #
wildbillnv
Member

Great topic! I generally agree with the retired wine writer the 'great good old days are right now'. This link to an interview by Sarah Marsh should contain most of the reasons why: http://www.sarahmarsh.com/issue1/opinion2.htm . The change in 'mind-set' is refreshing. Are you a 'New or Old School' advocate. Would that be like trying to make Lauren Drouhin pick a side in the debate and a permanent place of residence?

Posted 3 years ago #
Tom Blach
Member

Very different to Roger Belland, Bill. Proper old fashioned Santenay, rustic but joyful and with years in hand.

Posted 3 years ago #
Ray Walker
Member

I'm guilty of my love of Fourrier wines. Sorry. I don't write tasting notes as such anyhow, so maybe I can be given a pass for the little bit I do write impressions on.

As it works for me, I end up seeing a lot of these wines that in fact wines of great quality bought in mass by those who are already in the know and wish to keep prices where they currently are. Too much attention can have a direct impact on pricing to the consumer in some cases. Much of the 'new stars' are producers which have been quite underground for a while until someone let out a whisper.

Cheers and please do keep up the good fight!

Posted 3 years ago #
bill nanson
admin

Tom Blach said:
Very different to Roger Belland, Bill. Proper old fashioned Santenay, rustic but joyful and with years in hand.

Mine are also not Roger...

Posted 3 years ago #
Howard Cooper
Member

I think my first post on this board was about four Cortons I had from Chandon des Briailles. Do they count?

Other red Burgundy producers I like and drink wine from include:

Jadot
Bouchard
Drouhin
Marc Colin (they make Volnay)
Buisson Charles (they make Volnay)
Fontaine Gagnard (they make Volnay)
Albert Boillot
Louis Boillot (the cousin of Albert, not the husband of Barthod)
Michel Gaunoux
Rossignol-Trapet
Bachelet
Truchot
Domaine des Lambrays
Cecile Tremblay
Mugneret-Gibourg
Chevillon

For whites, I have probably bought more wines from Buisson-Charles, Mestre-Michelot and Bouchard than anyone else the past few years.

Posted 3 years ago #
bill nanson
admin

I had my first Buisson-Charles last week Howard and frankly it was a stunner; 2008 Meursault 1er with Patrick's individual spelling of Bouchères. Aromatically it reminded me very much of Coche, but in a kind of savoury saline way, not oak...

Posted 3 years ago #
Howard Cooper
Member

Bill,

Go there and get Patrick to let you try one of their older Meursaults or red wines (I think I had a 1988 Pommard - I would have my notes if I could get access to a certain wine board). They really age well. Even their 2001 Meursaults are drinking really well now - and boy were they closed when young.

Posted 3 years ago #
Tom Blach
Member

bill nanson said:
Mine are also not Roger...

That's good, Bill, I thought the other branch had ceased.

Posted 3 years ago #
bill nanson
admin

Now yes Tom - but as mentioned, mine are 99s...

Posted 3 years ago #
Paul Anderson
Member

My introduction to Burgundy was a tasting of Richebourg 1985 from DRC. Needless to say I have never scaled those heights since, but it spurred me into finding a lot more about visiting Burgundy, seeking out producers and tasting some great wines along the way so that my cellar consists of producers like -

Tollot-Beaut
Jean Raphet
The Gerbet Sisters
Maurice Ecard
Paul Garaudet
JJ Confuron
Rapet
Michel Prunier
Follin-Arbelet
Grivot
Maume
Jadot
Rodet
René Michel
Louis Lequin
René Lequin-Colin
Cave des Vignerons, Chablis and.......
Raveneau

Posted 3 years ago #
Bert Bessems
Member

I love the wines from Rousseau and Roumnier but as everyone already knows these are not easy to find and if you can find them prices are outreageous. Besides some bottles from Roumier and Rousseau I have in my cellar more bottles from Mugneret-Gibourg, Denis Bachelet, J.J.Confuron, Lignier-Michelot, Ghislaine Barthod, Fourrier, Thibaut Liger Belair, Chevillon. For the whites I really like the wines from Pierre-Yves Colin, Dureuil-Janthial, Carillon, Ramonet, Rapet, Roulot especially his Bourgogne Blanc.

Posted 3 years ago #
bayanne
Member

Just had 1990 Bachelet Charmes this evening which was delicious if not that demonstrative. Shame was that this was the last bottle of the case I bought in the early 1990s :(

Posted 3 years ago #
Michael Warner
Member

Great thread - I started to worry that it's only me (and Tom !) who looks for (or in my case can only afford) less fashionable producers. And I must say a huge Thank You to Bill in this regard - because your notes/articles have put me on to a few producers who I have happily bought from since.

I'd suggest an "under the radar" forum to share great new producers and great value Burgundy - but it might defeat the point ! I guess it would be a test of how much the Burgundy Report can move the market !

Anyway, some of the producers I have bought recently or plan to in the near future include:

Berthaut (thanks to Bill)
Francois Gay
Remoriquet
Bocquenet
Tortochot
Laurent Roumier - tried some of these in Australia and was very impressed
Robert Sirugue
Pierre Amiot
Jean Raphet

Posted 3 years ago #
Howard Cooper
Member

Michael,

In my experience, Burgundy drinkers are very savvy. Burgundy lovers find under the radar producers all over Burgundy. I see that all the time from the wonderful wines brought by people in my Burg tasting group - and the wines are not from DRC, Leroy and Roumier.

Posted 3 years ago #
Peter Chiu
Member

True Burgundy lovers seldom limit themselves to few plots of famous land and few famous producers.

Posted 3 years ago #
burgundyfan
Member

At the moment some young well educated vignerons are filling their wine on bottles by themselv instead of selling their wine to the big wine houses in Beaune. You will find perhaps in each village some now great guys or womans who make some great burgundy for a reasonable price. to name some:
- errel Ninot RUlly(mercury)
- Chenu(Savigny)
- Coquard-Loison(Clos de la Roche, Echezeaux, Charmes)
- Chauvenet-Chopin
and others

Posted 3 years ago #
Howard Cooper
Member

I had a 2002 by Chenu that was quite good.

The name Coquard is interesting to me. The first time I was in Burgundy (1984), I stopped at a winery named Coquard that I have never seen elsewhere. I really liked the wines when I tasted them at the winery, but thought they were a bit lighter than I had remembered years later when I tasted them at home. Never have heard much about the winery. I believe that it was in a house going from MSD to Gevrey Chambertin on the road right above Clos de Lambrays - separating the grand cru vineyard from some village level vines above.

Any idea if there is any relationship or have I not provided sufficient info?

Posted 3 years ago #
Michael Warner
Member

Howard,

I know there is a domaine Odoul-Coquard which is on the way from MSD to Gevrey - but not sure if this is the same domaine.

Michael

Posted 3 years ago #
Michael Warner
Member

In fact looking at it it seems not - Coquard-Loison seem to be based in Flagey-Echezeaux not Morey St Denis. Guy Coquard is in MSD on the Route des Grands Crus, which I think is the same as Odoul-Coquard.

Posted 3 years ago #
Howard Cooper
Member

Thanks Michael.

Posted 3 years ago #
JT
Member

Does anyone know whether one needs an appointment to visit Domaine Michel Gaunoux? Couldn't find any contact details anywhere.

Posted 7 months ago #
jacob
Member

JT, if you mean Jean-Michel Gaunoux from Meursault I would say yes. I've once visited this domaine and his Perrieres was 'formidable'!

You van use http://www.annu.fr to find phone and fax numbers

Posted 7 months ago #
JT
Member

Jacob, no. I meant Michel Gaunoux from Pommard, a red wine Domaine.

Posted 7 months ago #
lacene
Member

Here;
rue Notre Dame
21630
Pommard
Tél : 03 80 22 18 52
Fax : 03 80 22 74 30

Posted 7 months ago #

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