Just received an email from Olivier Leriche of Domaine de L'Arlot that he has left the domaine after 13 years and would be going to Ardeche. Wonder what is going to happen to the Domaine going forward......
Domaine de L'Arlot sees a change in winemaker
(21 posts) (8 voices)
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A bit more info: http://www.decanter.com/news/wine-news/529189/olivier-leriche-leaves-domaine-de-l-arlot
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rick Dalia
MemberWell, I hope not much change. I'm a big fan of de L'Arlot. I read some article (there's probably been more than one) not too long ago, blasting the use of whole clusters and stems. Personally, I find these wines very charming and elegant after a few years in bottle.
Posted 1 year ago # -
emile
Memberhttp://www.rjonwine.com/burgundy/criminal-stem-inclusion-bouchard-2009/#comments
The list of destemmers and non-destemmers is undoubtedly not conclusive or totally accurate because Producers, including DRC who did de-stem a significant portion of the fruit in La Tache 2006, often only use partial whole cluster. Case in point, Domaine Potel Bourgogne Rouge 2007, which has been discussed on this site in the past few months(BTG at Range and Benu in SF, Rick, BTW), is 50% whole cluster and 50% de-stemmed in order to "add complexity" to quote Nicholas Potel. Furthermore, I recently listened to Bernard Hervet, Managing Director for Domaine Faiveley(serendipitously, former Managing Director for Bouchard Pere et Fils!)state that whole cluster protocol should be based on village of origin due to disease, or fungus, or some other bacterial element present in specific communes(I will follow up with Mr. Hervet to clarify this), in addition to other factors such as ripeness of stems. Domaine Faiveley may use some whole cluster fermentation in Nuits St George, but will not do so in Gevrey Chambertin, for example. Fact.
This debate is similar to so-called Natural wine debates. The technique is not as black and white as may meet the eye, and many are too dogmatic regarding their stance to embrace the potential benefots of both.
Posted 1 year ago # -
emile said:
http://www.rjonwine.com/burgundy/criminal-stem-inclusion-bouchard-2009/#commentsrjohnwine said: Why did you feel it necessary dump in as much as 30 to 50% stem inclusion in your red Burgundies in the 2009 vintage (and similar amounts in 2008)? The results are a huge disappointment for someone who has loved these wines in the past, when they weren’t “vins de stem.”
Of-course each to their own. I personally disliked previous vintages of BP&F because of the mass of oak character they showed in their youth - of-course that should be close to a non-issue once the wines reach 6-7 years old - but let's see. I last tasted their 07s so remain agnostic about the character of their whole cluster (isn't that a better description? - 'stems' automatically seems a negative) fermentations.
In general there have been two poles of whole cluster producers, those with quite a gothic interpretation (very strong character) e.g. Prieuré-Roch, l'Arlot, Bourée and Dujac to name but a few. Then there were those who were more subtle, indeed sometimes hard to spot the stems amongst who I would include traditionally DRC and Leroy. The goths would usually transmute into lovely rose-petal aromas by about year 3-5, which I find very charming indeed for 'small wine' I'm not sure I want that as a dominant note in a Clos de Vougeot or a Romanée-Saint-Vivant, but again it's about degree.
Today there are many, many producers who, aided by some whole clusters, are delivering superbly aromatic, complex wines that are a world away from the goths, including those like Dujac whose style has beome more subtle and to my mind all the more compelling.
In the end, it is about what's in the glass, and because of that I have to disagree with the tenor of 'rjon's' critique because it seems to exclude all 'vin de stems' - but not having tasted the the last BP&F's I can't discount that he could be right there...
Posted 1 year ago # -
emile
MemberBill, interesting that included in Clive Coates' recent Domaine profile of Domaine Dujac he mentions his fondness for more recent vintages because the whole cluster decision is now a percentage based on the vintage. Coates believes the wines now exhibit more terroir and less Dujac character, if you will. Coates' claims former vintages were 100% whole cluster and 100% new oak regardinless of vintage conditions.
http://www.clive-coates.com/tastings/domaine/dujac
Interesting that the Gothic stance(great description, BTW!) you mention is seemingly a recipe, or formula, without considering other factors affecting the character of a site and vintage, and arguably seeking to achieve predictible aromas and flavors more typical of technique than by site and vintage.
Again, I make the analogy to so-called Natural wine debates where misinformation and dogmatic points of view inhibits many from tasting what is in the glass as you say.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think the increasing display of terroir in Dujac wines started in the early 1990s, and when I commented on it to Jacques Seysses at the time, he said it all was due to the work in the vineyards by his vineyard manager at the time (later killed in an accident) Christophe Morin. I think Jacques is correct -- as a longetime observer of Burgundy wines, the expression of terroir has become much clearer over the years throughout Burgundy, and the clearest expressions are where the best vineyard work is done.
There was aparallel development in terroir expression for DRC's wines -- back in the 1980s, just like Dujac's wines, DRC's were known for a heavy style overlay without that much differentiation of terroir, and the change there, too, coincided with vineyard work, not with modification of use of stems. I don't think anyone privileged to know DRC's recent vintages, for example, would say that 2008, where stems were not fully used at DRC, is more expressive of terroir than 2009, where almost all the stems were used.
The foregoing notwithstanding, Jeremy Seysses says (and I agree with him) that certain terroirs are more agreeable to whole cluster (such as his Clos de la Roche) than others (his Charmes-Chambertin). In that sense, less use of whole cluster in Charmes-Chambertin may help to give a clearer expression of terroir.
Posted 1 year ago # -
emile
MemberThanks for the comments, Claude. Greatly appreciated. I do not not think anyone would argue that healthier soils/vines increase expression. Just read Coates comments here:
http://www.clive-coates.com/observations/burgundy-has-never-been-so-fine
However, there seemingly has been a modification of stems, which has followed the improvements in vineyards as you mention. This modification is arguably a result of better understanding how best to express terroir. Again, in years past producers may have utilized 100% wholecluster and 100% new oak regardless of the vintage characteristics. The fact that Dujac and DRC are making stem decisions based on vintage character as you highlight above is logical, progressive, and less formulaic, archaic.
You also confirm statements made previously that wholecluster is a decision to be made based on village, or vineyard, of origin as well as vintage and not because this is how my grandfather made the wine.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Emile -- There is no right or wrong about whole cluster. There are people who never would consider using it no matter what and make great wine (e.g., Jayer/Rouget, Lafarge, Chevillon, Grivot), others who use it all the time every year (e.g., Leroy, de Courcel, Pacalet, Confuron-Cotétidot), and those in between (which vary from those who generally like to work with stems as much as is practical, such as Bize, Clos des Lambrays and de Montille in addition to DRC and Dujac, to those who only use it occasionally -- IIRC, d'Angerville has just gone over to this group and JJ Confuron, too, and Christophe Roumier varies quite a bit, depending on vintage and wine). I will say that in recent years, those who use it some of the time have been growing, and probably more from the ranks of those who previously had not used it at all than from those who had been using it 100%. Another variant is those who generally do not work with whole cluster but who use it for practical reasons with some very small cuvées (e.g., Jadot).
Posted 1 year ago # -
Claude Kolm said:
Emile -- There is no right or wrong about whole cluster. There are people who never would consider using it no matter what and make great wine (e.g., Jayer/Rouget, Lafarge, Chevillon, Ponsot, Grivot), others who use it all the time every year (e.g., Leroy, de Courcel, Pacalet, Confuron-Cotétidot), and those in between (which vary from those who generally like to work with stems as much as is practical, such as Bize, Clos des Lambrays and de Montille in addition to DRC and Dujac, to those who only use it occasionally -- IIRC, d'Angerville has just gone over to this group and JJ Confuron, too, and Christophe Roumier varies quite a bit, depending on vintage and wine). I will say that in recent years, those who use it some of the time have been growing, and probably more from the ranks of those who previously had not used it at all than from those who had been using it 100%. Another variant is those who generally do not work with whole cluster but who use it for practical reasons with some very small cuvées (e.g., Jadot).Celebrate diversity.
Posted 1 year ago # -
emile
MemberClaude, I clearly have not taken a stance either way, and, frankly, am not partial if a wine performs. I agree and celebrate diversity as well. However, your comments and other evidence seem to suggest that there are those who are using a less formulaic protocol in regards to stems compared to what have been utilized in the past. A terroir specific, vintage specific protocol undoubtedly seems more prudent, if not pleasurable, than the "Goth" stance Bill mentioned previously. It makes sense that producers using stems sparingly may have increased, but it does seem that those who use it all the time, most especially 100% wholecluster fermentation, has decreased.
Posted 1 year ago # -
emile said:
but it does seem that those who use it all the time, most especially 100% wholecluster fermentation, has decreased.Certainly, it's decreased by two very important estates, but there weren't many to begin with (until you go back a substantial period of time). For the last several decades, the MO of the great majority of producers that I've visited has been 100% destemming.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I tend to think that both sides, viticulture and vinification, have an equal part to play here. It has always been an art to include significant quantities of whole clusters without overpowering the drinker of a young wine with the smokiness of aroma - and nobody was 100% successful. With time, a clear 'not by rote' approach and choosing only the very best whole clusters seems amply rewarded. We had some old-vines Beaune Cras yesterday and set about a 'positive selection', choosing only the very best bunches to avoid the destemmer - in this case we had maybe 5%, in another the result might be <1% a third might be 50% - if I was working for myself (god forbid!) this is the approach I would choose.
Returning to l'Arlot - lots of speculation around the dinner tables of Beaune. It was clearly a shock that AL would leave so close to the harvest, so it is understandable that AXA might not have had the time to choose their ideal candidate - let's see. I was speaking to a stageur at l'Arlot and they say it is an unreal atmosphere just now as the place seems like a ghost-ship - they must come to Beaune to find anyone to talk to. Hot amongst the rumours are the abandonment of (any!) whole clusters and even the abandonment of bio in the vines - it will be interesting to see where the truth lies once the dust settles!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Might try one or two when I visit in two weeks time, Rick...
Posted 6 months ago # -
I ran away before the 2010s (was already there 2.5 hours) but the 2011s are beautiful, and currently showing no pyrazines.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Michael Warner said:
Any major stylistic change with the 2011s compared to previous vintages? I gather they would have been made with 100% destemming.Not at all Michael, that was just one of many rumours before Jacques started working (and even after!).
Before Jacques arrived in 2011, the team here were largely tracking the approach of Dujac - i.e. less blind use of stems. Today, triage sorts out the millerande bunches and uses them whole. The 'standard' bunches are destemmed.
So % whole cluster equals percent of millerandes, which varies by plot and vintage. This is still 'the system'. Hope this helps.
Posted 6 months ago #
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